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Post by The flying Rookie on Sept 19, 2019 18:52:08 GMT -5
I know an alumnus from Norwich (class of 77), and upon looking in his senior year book, i saw in the back in the activities section...the skull and swords. it strikes me as a little strange that in 1977 the skull and swords was looked at along the same lines as IEEE or another respectable organization. my question is, when did the skull and swords turn into a "secret" society? and what led up to it? Thanks I attended Norwich Military College in 1989 and I remember sitting in a Skull and Swords meeting with the rest of my freshmen class. I didn't realize that they became a secret society after that. My Captain was a member (Captain Strong) Skull and Swords was officially disbanded while I was there, 97-98 I believe. They tried to intimidate some upperclassmen as official reps when my roommate complained about the way he was being treated. So one of the group that was known to us all and had a picture in our rook books, came to the mess table and sat down with us asking us how we were all doing and if everything was good with us. It was obvious he was banking on his presence alone and the questions he was asking to make all the upperclassmen cadre shake in their boots for fear of some crazy retaliation if they didn't let off. I thought it was funny and I was always told that they only ever existed in the first place as a regulator of the old fraternities. They helped people out I heard, usually financially. Then there was a big scandal with the cadet colonel beating someone up and there were meetings up at Jackman Hall, and next thing you know, Skull and Swords goes from being recognized and accepted to being banned and driven underground. |
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Post by Will '83 on Oct 26, 2019 19:11:56 GMT -5
-I've read more of the thread since my last visit and wanted to relate an incident from the past. And as an aside, Nu Old School, you and I might know each other. For the record, when I was Rook, the '79-'80 crop of S&S saved my a$$ one night up in Montpelier. Not too long after being recognized (if memory serves we didn't get recognized until almost February that year) three of us rooks got into a for real, seriously life-threatening bind in Montpelier. The S&S phone number was in the back of our pink rook books, we dialed it, and I'm here today because of it. We were in civies, and thank God one of us had a rook book with us. As for my statement above about the S&S never leaving: I stand by it but will not elaborate. I am glad they could help you and I likely even know about the incident. I don't disagree that they remain underground. I will just say that at that time they mainly were bails bondsmen and tried to keep the University reputation pristine by covering up and greasing the skids unofficially. Not a bad thing just not some super secret power group. In fact, they tried to run interference on occasion for friends where the individual was facing Honor or Board hearings having nothing to do with protecting the reputation of the university. The sad thing was we knew there would be one hockey player, one football player, one MP, one cadet going in the Marines, etc. you pretty much knew who was going to be picked pre-selection. -Yup, S&S helped cadets make bail. I agree with you on that. As an aside, during the year of that incident related above, I was in Goodyear, G Company, a Marine PLC. |
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Post by Will '83 on Oct 26, 2019 19:29:25 GMT -5
I was there and you couldn't be further from the truth. What part? 78-79 being a rough year where the fire road behind Hawkins and Dodge was covered with broken beer bottles tossed out of windows almost every night or the big bonfire on the UP where a guy who was an absolute known piece of crap took a swing at the Commandant, or all the other stuff that went down that year where S&S couldn't or wouldn't address any of the cadets behind the scenes? Or the fact Regimental Staff that Spring picked every member at the ceremony based on who they knew or were (football, hockey, Marine, etc.) not simply based on loyalty to the school? Don't get me wrong they bailed out kids in trouble, did a good job keeping the school's name clean and frankly were for the most part really good guys. But to say they were a secret society while they were having a public induction ceremony on the UP is a joke, or that they solved problems in the corps beyond those outside of campus confines is for the most part, in my opinion, wrong. Good guys, provided a service, just not some super powered, secret society saving the University in the dark of night.-Well, that year the Wick made Playboy's list of top ten drinking schools, so there was a reputation to uphold : -) |
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Post by Jamie's Cryin on Apr 24, 2020 20:20:50 GMT -5
Goodnight Mrs Oberlander...wherever you are!
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Post by Guest8675309 on Sept 16, 2021 16:14:40 GMT -5
It’s now 2021, wondering if anyone on campus is interested in digger deeper into these groups/theories with some serious research
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Post by FLINT on Sept 20, 2021 10:40:27 GMT -5
It’s now 2021, wondering if anyone on campus is interested in digger deeper into these groups/theories with some serious research hello, yes I am interested in learning more about this. |
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Post by Alumni'21 on Sept 22, 2021 12:59:04 GMT -5
I graduated in May 2021, all I would say is that nobody will know the truth. I've met some alumni that told me it wasn't that secret at all. A good discovery I made was that in Gerard hall in the basement there are locked doors in the hallway and my friends and I broke in and found a collection of old yearbooks and we sad tunnels as well. The tunnels aren't that big but a person can crawl.
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Honorable and helped Cadets
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Post by Honorable and helped Cadets on Apr 10, 2022 22:19:08 GMT -5
Just found this thread… I attended NU in 1980s. S&S helped cadets, especially freshman. I had a boom box stolen and reported it to an S&S member with the name of the person who stole it. The S&S member told me not to say a word to anyone, go back to my room and that he would take care of it. 2 days later the boom box was on my desk when I got back from class and the guy that stole it had a black eye and busted lip. S&S not only did a service for me, they also did a service for the thief - teaching him a much needed lesson about breaking the NU honor code without getting him kicked out of school. S&S also gave cadets money my freshman year for transportation to NYC to attend a Rook buddy’s funeral. S&S were young men of honor, who were respected on campus. I hope they are still around in some capacity.
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Post by WICadet on Dec 28, 2022 12:50:29 GMT -5
What a wonderful read - I love that this thread exists and am very glad to have stumbled across it. The lore of this storied university is truly amazing and will live on forever. I attended Norwich from 98-00 and again in fall 02, for one semester. Most 21st century cadets will prob think of that as "old corps" - but I can assure you my rook bros and I were obsessed with all things "old corps" back then and feared that the school had already gone soft for allowing civies on the UP and women into the Corps.
In 98, as mere rooks, we knew some nuts went down with S&S the prior year - but it was all very hush hush. Jackman couldn't keep a lid on it, though - Ross Rapach's picture/bio was still in our rook books introducing him as our CDT Col., yet on campus another guy (that was not nearly as well respected) held the rank. Ross and his fellow bonesmen were all treated as persona non grata by the Administration in Jackman and I think they were on CMC the entire year. Me and a couple of my rook bros would salute him anyways when we saw him around until he told us to quit the nuts and that he would prob catch some hell for us doing that. We respected that and still all thought of him as the "real Cadet Col." That poor guy got totally screwed and I am sure his punishment was far beyond what he and his brethren deserved.
Though I never graduated from there or received a ring - I will always cherish my time at the Wic. I knew a few of the KRs that agreed to leave the school earlier in 2002 (before i went back) - and was asked to join a secret society (not S&S or KR) myself back in 2000 - but ended up not doing that because I left the school at the end of the 2000 academic year due to my grades being so abysmal.
By the time I returned in 2002, the school was a little different - no more buck privates (except me, who still had the epaulets from my prior stint - and I wore them for several months until the CDT Col. at that time asked me to stop wearing them, as he thought it wasn't setting a good example and because rooks were saluting me because they didn't know better and assumed I was an officer lmao). Also, secret societies had been ostensibly rooted out earlier that year - but most knew that some had been tapped for membership and that those groups were totally underground. Was not cool to audibly speculate about them at that time. They'd still, nevertheless, hang out at "The Pub" and get all nostalgic when particular songs by The Doors or the Allman Bros Band would play.
In 2002, I spent most of my time 420ing in the storage room above the stage in the auditorium (aka the Kit Kat Club) with a few other notorious cadets. We would tell others that we were on the "bowling team" - since we smoked a lot of bowls up there (see how easy it is to start your own secret society?). Other cadets would be like "I didn't know there was a bowling team - can I join?" We'd just laugh at them initially and then even harder at their puzzled reactions. Never got caught, but almost did once by some tools (prob zoobies) who were rehearsing for a play. I only got my act together a few years afterward in my mid-20s and finished my bachelor's at another great (but non-military) university - but the experience was nothing like Norwich. (Do cadets still run the "UP 500" wearing only combat boots and canteen belt after the first heavy snowfall? Are FU fights still a thing? Do bad cadets on CMC still have to march "tours" on Saturday for like 4 hours at a time? Anyone duct tape a bugler to the flagpole lately?)
Secret societies certainly existed there even after they were officially stamped out - and I am sure they always will. I always loved how you could palpably feel the weight of the school's history at Norwich. Of course, it's totally understandable why some want to know about these underground societies - probably just because they weren't a part of them - but the truth is they just exist so the Corps can self-regulate. These dudes helped worthy people that got themselves into jams - and they sorted out the ones who caused problems. What more do you really need to know? If you go there and blab about secret societies as a rook - I guarantee you will never be invited to join one. Just enjoy the school's lore - and know that just by going to that school, you will have countless experiences that will become stories of your own that I don't think you would ever get going to any other college. nuts - I only went there for just over two years and was no model cadet - but I still can recite "Norwich Forever" in its entirety and doing so brings me right back to the UP and puts a smile on my face. Essayons!
-EEBTTF-
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Post by Lindenwald on Mar 20, 2023 5:01:34 GMT -5
I attended Norwich and 89-90 playing both football and tennis. S&S was very reputable and to be honest, I thought was officially sanctioned.
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Post by Mad dog 2020 on Jan 26, 2024 22:49:46 GMT -5
Dr m will fix you up, you’ll find it under the tree at the bottom
LOS314
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Post by gw82 on Feb 28, 2024 18:04:49 GMT -5
Too much speculation here, but yes I have seen the tunnels, there are still heating and utility tunnels I bet also... and my experience with s&s was all positive in the protection of the university... and students when they got into trouble... yes some students needed to also be "pushed a little" to fly straight or resign etc. but that was not used in a negative way as much as possible... as for 572? my bet is a chapter # and/or the bible... read the passage on angles, 572 is referred to in there also...
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