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Post by last in greens on Apr 14, 2009 13:33:59 GMT -5
Remember that Norwich is a very old school and used a steam generation method of heating. Perhaps all of these tunnels (which I heard of when i was there in the 80's) were simply built for monitoring the heating ducts. Remember, this is Norwich, where everything is from the lowest bidder. Do you really think the school would spend $$$ on tunnels for secret societies? My dorm was called "the projects" because of deferred maintenance.
Whatever S & S was or is, should remain secret because at the end of the day, what does it matter? I had friends in S & S from my junior and senior year and I felt horrible when their descendents at the campus ruined what they had built upon.
As for coddling, there is one word-- litigation. We live in a world where everything is someone else's responsibility. I work in the ski industry, used to patrol at NU when it had a ski area and the cost of insurance and the amount of paperwork has skyrocketed. Litigation lawyers would cream their pants over a "secret society" that had no supervision and someone brought a suit against not to mention the cadre who are simply doing their jobs trying to prepare people for the real world-- and combat. But of course our society doesn't acknowledge that life is tough. Even S & B is being sued today.
Of course, all of the "signs" people see around campus might be part of someone's idea of an elaborate joke to keep you on your toes while there.
If people want to preserve the honor and integrity of the school, then act appropriately yourself and don't rely on an outside influence to keep you in line. The best lessons I learned at NU are personal responsibility and self-discipline, something that serves me well even today.
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Post by arty94 on Jun 17, 2009 16:13:36 GMT -5
Don't bother looking into or inquiring about the mechanics, all you need to know is they fixed things. Whatever was broken they fixed. You try and decipher what that means. All I know is that they were some of the best guys and friends that you could ever want to have.
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Post by Dco94 on Jun 27, 2009 23:15:11 GMT -5
I remember finding that when I was a cadet looking through old yearbooks for clues....the more things change, the more they stay the same. As for now, I just got back from the The Hill and the new buildings are really something. The only things that bugged me were the "Rook Lounge" upstairs in Mess Hall. It has a flat screen TV. Can you believe that? ...and I couldn't find the painting of Ransom charging up Chapultapec Hill anywhere. Anyone know where it went to? |
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Post by junior10 on Jun 29, 2009 18:46:40 GMT -5
Dco94: It would surprise you just how many alumni ask me where the Harmon Hall Murials went. All of them were split up. Some are in the new "Wise" Campus center (AKA the renovated Harmon Hall)
I saw Bringing Power to Niagra in one of the Stairwells of the Math/Science complex early my sophomore year but not since.
The Hero of Manilla Bay is hanging in the new Museum on campus last time I checked. Although I haven't been in there in a couple of years.
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Post by Keys on Aug 5, 2009 12:12:25 GMT -5
Does anyone know the story of how it all ended? Any details from the night that a drunk Cadet Col (S&S leader Mark A.) used a master key to enter another cadets room and beat him? I'm just curious the details behind this story and what brought down the secret society that was there to help cadets.
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Post by NUMP00 on Aug 21, 2009 14:43:39 GMT -5
Wow this is funny stuff. S&S is gone, gone with the last 8 who happend to be some good guys who suffered through some harsh nuts that last year to say they graduated with that diploma. MP of 97, secret names, you guys sound like conspiracy theory nuts. Tell me about the 9/11 hoax again!
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Post by FutureOfTheCorps on Aug 27, 2009 14:48:53 GMT -5
Some fascinating stuff here. I'm currently a sophomore in the Corps and was just discussing the shock of how disobedient, bold, disrespectful, and downright lazy the rooks are. I know I'm only a year older, but I know I busted I disagree from Rook Arrival Day until Recognition in March. This class simply is not. The Commandants are playing babysitter and finding SSG's to fill cadre slots is like pulling teeth. Today I saw a RCT laughing in the face of a CSM and talking at ease outside like they own the place. And all they have to fear is a light-toned correction from an upperclassmen, not even an ass-chewing. My point is that I expected to be challenged here, my rook year was nothing but a game of priveleges. The lack of S&S or any type of group, leads to a generational lack of toughness in the Corps. Its just a bunch of kids in uniforms now and pot-bellies left and right. Something needs to be done and I'm praying for Jackman to look to the past and turnaround the track of a dying Corps.
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Post by Guest on Sept 9, 2009 13:30:26 GMT -5
you must not know what you are talking about. Rooks may not be getting an ass chewing outside in front of everyone , but they sure enough are getting them behind closed doors, or after lights out, nd i can tell you this because i have recieved 2 of them... and one was just for forgetting a pen, and the other was cus i broke bearing. and i have seen people do much worse. but lets not even discuss the Sophomores. you all tend to play "hall way sports" and hav "F. U" wars like there are aloowed. EVEN AFTER THE REGIMENTAL CAMMANDER SAID THAT THEY ARE TO STOP. i have seen sophmores throw steakes at each other and actually cause physical harm. i'm not saying that this couldn't become easier or harder. but u posted that on the 27th rook wek started on the 23rd. so you probably should wait a while to see how thinsgs. and most of us are busting our ass's. and one more thing it wouldn't be so hard to find S.Srg's if the current ones would do thier job. if they know the rules as well as they claim to they know what is allowed and what isn't so then there is no reason that a platoon's entire Cadre staff had to go under ivestigation. maybe the upperclassmen should stop acting like they were and currently are perfect.
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Post by A Cadet on Sept 14, 2009 11:48:39 GMT -5
I have to agree with the Rook here (Im a sophomore as well). For one, the post was made DURING Rook Week, when attitude problems are still being worked out. And frankly, we acted like we owned the place by mid September anyway. The ass-chewings didnt happen for us outside either - when we got back to barracks though, it was a whole different story. And after being on several freshmen decks in the evenings, I can attest that the cadre are still continuing on with the tradition.
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Post by Brian Lawrence on Sept 21, 2009 13:29:08 GMT -5
On December 15, 1999 I was asked to leave Norwich University. As a concession, the administration would allow me to return the following semester under the conditions that I never set foot in any cadet barracks ever again.
Let me tell you my story as I think what I learned may be of value in the context of this discussion.
In 1999 during the fall semester of my sophomore year I was selected as for cadre for Charlie Company. Due to a lack of volunteers, my several years of prior military experience and age (I was 22-23 at the time) , I was allowed to fill a Staff Sergeant slot.
One night several of our freshman snuck out, had gotten drunk and then made a loud drunken spectacle of themselves as they returned. Had they been quite, no one would have known, but word of the drunken incident quickly spread across the campus. As a member of their cadre I had a dilemma. I was concerned. What was my responsibility? I knew the book answer was to turn them in, yet I was conflicted. My 5 years of experience as a army medic had taught me that what was best for the soldier always comes first. Was turning my freshman in to Jackman Hall really in their best interest? Several admirable upperclassman had already expelled for being caught drinking on campus one too many times. At the same time I also had a responsibility to the rooks that didn’t drink, what message I would be sending them if I elected to just let it go, should I send the subtext that people would look the other way when I knew they wouldn’t? I had thought long and hard about what was right, I brought the issue to the platoon Drill Sergeant who’s reaction was to immediately report them but I urged him to let me deal with the issue.
That night with the platoon on the wall I gave the guilty parties a choice, they could turn themselves in or the issue could be handled internally. I made the punishment clear, every night (except on Sundays) for the next 40 days we would conduct 30 min to 45 min of physical training. The following night they all showed up at 22 hrs in the corner room on the third floor of Ransom Hall and accepted my offer.
For the next week I would lead the training session which would consist of typical army physical training. It was difficult but I would participate in the exercises with the recruits doing everything they did in order to provide an example and to determine how challenging the workout sessions were. While we trained we all would take turns reading the rules and regulations regarding the violation of the alcohol policy in order to reinforce why we were there and provide a break for the recruits. There was never any hitting, no humiliation, no threats of violence. It was no different than any punishment you would see in the Army.
A week later I found myself the subject of an investigation. A recruit realized I had exposed myself, l too was now guilty of breaking the rules. To be clear I do not hold no resentment towards the man who turned me in, in the contrary I believe that his turning me in showed the potential for natural tactical foresight and I believe he could have been a talented tactical commander. Ironically I understand that he was kicked out for drinking on campus and never graduated, again a fact that I take no pleasure in knowing.
The IG came down and conducted their investigation. Several of my peers urged me to lie and save my own skins, but I couldn’t. The hypocrisy was too much. How could I preach the Honor Code and not live it when it counted most. I assured myself that, after all this was a leadership laboratory mistakes were expected. They would undoubtedly admire a young man who in the face of certain peril, would bravely stand fast and own his mistake. I’d throw myself on the mercy of the court. I become an Alden Partridge Martyr. For the second time gravely miss read the situation.
At my hearing I presented very openly and honestly what had happened and why only challenging the few accusations that were not true. The board deliberated and to my shock I was dismissed. Immediately, expected to off campus and gone within 24 hrs
Of course I appealed the decision to the President, as per my rights. I begged the professor of military science to find a way to help me stay and in a rare move he did.
lobbied my friends to start a letter campaign which produced over a hundred letters. In the end it bought me a few weeks and the chance to finish the semester. I was given the ability to return, under certain conditions. I went home; I bided my time, I contemplated my next move. Then there were terrorists, and planes, and war. My since of duty shifted, instead of school I focused on my multiple trips to the Middle East. In between trips I found a career as an authority on terrorism becoming somewhat of an expert. I met a girl. I settled down. I never really looked back.
Why was I dismissed so quickly? First I broke the rules, second I told the truth about it and the combination of the two made me a liability in the event of a law suit. I know for a fact that had I lied I would have a ring. While I regret not having completed my time at the wick I am more proud to have done what considered to be the right thing and lived the honor code no matter the cost.
Why the long story? It’s the lesson I learned that I want to share.
Norwich is a business. I know that at first that sounds like an unacceptable comprise. Yet with enough time away and the benefit of hind site I can assure you that this is the paradigm of the administration and if wasn’t there would be no Norwich anyway. Their not evil or misguided, they just value the institution from a different perspective, and that perspective often is in opposition to tradition.
Like all of you I am fascinated by the idea of secret societies, it adds part of the magic to the school. I was even approached by two of them in my freshman and sophomore year but declined for personal reasons. The point is President Schneider wasn’t against reinstating S&S in 1999. It was only when he could no longer defend their insubordination to the board of trustees that they were banned. They proved to be too much of a liability. If anyone is really interested I returning S&S to official status then it’s time to get outside the box. If I was a cadet in the corps of cadets I would start a new tradition. Let the Cadet Col as his last official act be the presenting of a proposal for a new charter (as Schneider originally suggested) for S&S to the President of the University. If you’re an S&S alum use you influence to help guide the new charter. If you wasn’t it, then work to achieve it no matter if it takes a hundred years. The University just wants the assurance that S&S will not be a liability. Never give in. Essayons.
Brian Lawrence
Almost class of 2002
doc.lawrence@us.army.mil
(please put NORWICH in the title of your email or I wont read it. Brian)
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Post by RED HORSE on Sept 23, 2009 18:51:05 GMT -5
dberube can u send me an email
red.horse24@gmail.com
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Post by rookietrain on Oct 11, 2009 7:38:06 GMT -5
I am a current rook at the wick, i love this school alot, i havent probable gotten a full appriciation of it, but i think the S&S do need to come back, there are rooks going around thin king they can do what ever they want, and it is crap, i have seen a few upperclassman i know from rugby get kicked off of their billet as cadre because they did the right thing, or they had to deal with a little stink of a kid, and been investigated on false charges. I have heard of rooks having to move platoons and whatnot because of them accusing their cadre staff. We are babied, and the reason whi i came here was because I wanted to come back a better person, not the same kid i was, If the S&S are out there then please do something about these rooks.
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Post by Linda on Oct 19, 2009 13:06:37 GMT -5
All very interesting. The speculation after all these years still lingers.
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Post by NU99 on Oct 21, 2009 16:06:49 GMT -5
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Post by SoP on Nov 9, 2009 22:13:05 GMT -5
I agree completely with rookietrain, its really aggravating when you see a rook acting like he is an upperclassmen or you see a kid that wont lock it up, a lot of its bs its like the rooks expect to get recognized without any discipline...im a rook right now so i can just imagine what it’s like for an upperclassman to see this bs, if S&S was still around which it may be i would do what ever i could to join it
If anyone has any more info regarding S&S then please send me an email: rookiestorm@yahoo.com
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