Skull and Swords

[class0f12]

that's a nice theory put forward by the last two posters, but it doesnt explain anything about the Mechanics, who weren't S&S or NR, or the lack of 1919 yearbooks, or Lawrence Stillman, or the Night Riders, or why the 1922 yearbooks mentions it first as 'Skull and Cross Swords,' which sees the 'Cross' removed the next year, or a hundred other holes.
no, it just doesnt explain enough.

Class of 12, go look in a 1994 war whoop; based on your posting name, i'll assume you're on campus, the one they have in the library had the page when I last looked a few weeks ago, at the very end, but it's photocopied from another one which you'll be able to tell.

and dberube, censoring names on here doesnt do much good, since anyone who wants to know can just open up a war whoop....

[dberube]

Sept 29, 2010 22:00:35 GMT -5 @class0f12 said:

and dberube, censoring names on here doesnt do much good, since anyone who wants to know can just open up a war whoop....

While that is true, it also means that this page\thread will not be showing up in search engine results on those names. Good or bad, that is the way I would like to keep it for now because not everyone has access to a War Whoop but the internet is everywhere.

-Berube

[Spooky Boo Boo]

Here is my theory on these complicated matters:

1857: The original “Society” is founded as a off shoot of Theta Chi. The “regulators” if you will. 572

1858 - 1866: Membership dwindles due to the civil war. The Society is forced to recruit less than stellar cadets to keep the group alive. These subpar members start tweaking initiation standards as well as cadet regulating techniques. The school turns into a cesspool of nutsbags. True 572 members become frustrated with there lack of influence on the dwindling corp and start to get desperate.

1866: Old South Barracks burn down due to a Lawrence Stillman seeking revenge on the Society for hazing him and ultimately leading him to drop out of the school. They singled him out because his initials matched those of the sacred number 572. He is never caught and goes on to start one of America's first pornography studios. When he died, his will expressed regret for not sticking out the initiation period in his early life and donated his skull to the society to be used in their Junior Ring photo shoot.

1866 – 1916: The schools first 50 years in Northfield. The Society has ups and downs and other groups/cliques are formed. New initiation/rites of passage are formed due to the new terrain and environment. New secrets startups come and go but 572 remains strong and underground.

1916: Did you know that the first African American was admitted to Norwich in 1916. Harold 'Doc' Martin. He graduated in 1920. Which means he was at the university in 1919 when S&S first showed up in the War Whoop. He actually was on the War Whoop staff as well as very involved in other activities. There is actually a society at Norwich now named after him.

Perhaps the original 572 society broke apart within this time frame due to strong differences of opinion on Doc Martin and having an African-American at the school. It's feasible that the society might have had many different problems prior to this and this was the sort of pinnacle in the break up. Perhaps some in the group were racist and trying to associate with some sort of spin off. They decided that they didn't want him around and tried to get rid of him by using old hazing tactics. Perhaps the majority of the members wanted to uphold the founding standards and principles and they believed Martin to be an exceptional cadet who did not deserve to be unjustly hazed. Perhaps they protected him from these angry members. Perhaps these angry members then ended up breaking apart from the group and chartering there own....the night riders? Maybe 192 stands for 1919-Chapter 2 of this spin off society.

Martin finally graduates in 1920. When university officials heard about the group that protected Martin, they deemed it worthy to be official and known to the corps, thus approving the first official publication of the societies members in 1921. They were the most honorable men the university could produce.

“The Lords of Discipline”. Any cadet who hasn't read this book or seen this movie is missing out. It's based on all this crap from Norwich, VMI, and the Citadel. The only question is this... was the “The Ten” suppose to be skull and swords or the night riders?

Perhaps I've used the word “perhaps” to much. Someone should write a book/movie based on all this stuff. OH WAIT. They did..... “The Lords of Discipline”. Any cadet who hasn't read this book or seen this movie is missing out. It's based on all this crap from Norwich, VMI, and the Citadel. The only question is this... was the “The Ten” suppose to be skull and swords or the night riders?

Ok...did I miss anything? Some true. Some not. I tried to meld all theories together into this one. This one's for you, LRS!

[Spooky Boo Boo]

Please disregard my typos and redundancy in the previous post. I was a bit hasty with my typing/editing. My grammatical apologies to Berube. This is the best site on the net.

SBB

[class0f12]

perhaps indeed, spooky, but does it not make equal if not greater sense that Kemp Russel Blanchard Flint, NU '03, author of the Cadet's Creed that we all know so well, and then-professor, helped organize, in the university's centennial year, the formation of a society pledged to uphold the values and traditions of norwich? 1919, as the first public members of then-S&CS were members of the class of 1923, and the same War Whoop which features these men also mentions a highly secret, unforgettable night in the quarry. 1919, again, as the centennial year, when the stairs and gates were built, the MCV gate which once stood proud and said 'let all who pass through this gate be faithful to the past,' the quote of so many S&S members in War Whoop after War Whoop.

these mid-1800s theories miss that norwich was an extremely different place in its first century than for the vast majority of the second. yeah, there's similarities between the theta chi creed and the cadet's creed, and there's the numbers, and the regulators, but the regulators... wasnt that just a club that published a newspaper? and didnt they have some rival newspaper? norwich in the 1800s... couldnt have ever had more than like 100 cadets, the idea of having a super-secret society like S&S among such a small population is the best argument against that theory

[Rusty]

I agree, and KRB as in KRB Flint has a certian "572" ring about it....look at the numbers on any conventional phone pad. Curious but could that be the 572 connection?

[Notreallyaguest]

The first secret society
www.flickr.com/photos/48199430@N00/4863381250/in/set-72157602208530715/

[Notreallyaguest]

Copy and paste the entire link that appears above.

[Gadoosh]

But what about the friggin HUMAN SKULL that they have!? I mean...is it just some random skull used for symbolism? What about the shrines with the melted candles/wax and old yearbooks and individual past members senior photos all lined up in a row....

What is all that stuff?

[nucc14]

all i know is that s&s had something to do with the brothers killing them selves in the bottom of alumni, the cadets that died hung them selves because of a demonic presence that they were messing around with. i recently communicated with a sprit of the past, i know it sounds crazy but the spirit also said that s&s is still in existence but it's extremely secret. i know all this sounds crazy i thought so until i experienced it. the spirit also said that the brothers killed themselves with three wire hangers tied together. just thought id throw that out there

[MurderOfCrows]

..."I met an alumnus before I went to school at a summer job I had the prior summer. He talked about the bricked up room at the south end basement of Alumni Hall. He said that there had been a series of suicides in that room, specifically, [which] were all written off as coincidence until one day that one cadet walked in on the student that lived in that room. There he was, standing on a chair, preparing to hang himself. His friend stopped him and surrounded him, consoling and questioning him. They asked him why he wanted to hang himself, and he simply replied, "The people in the mirror told me to do it", at which point he proceded to describe each of the previous victims in gross detail. When I tried to sneak down to the basement of Chaplin Hall to catch some Zzz's as a Rook, I found myself to be wide awake, filled with anxiety. Needless to say, I never went down there, again."...

From www.norwich.edu/about/news/2004/ghosts.html

[MuderOfCrows]

Oh..and the word is that the room as been reopened in the past few years. I believe during the renovation of Alumni Hall. Spooky.

[nucc14]

anybody have any info on the "room" in the chapel?

[MurderOfCrows]

The room in the chapel isn't hard to find. Access is in the area in back of the building, behind the alter. There is a stair case down as well as other areas to go. Go check it out one night when no one is around or maybe after a honor code hearing, where it wouldn't seem strange that cadets are in there at night. But be careful. The spirit is strong in the chapel and if it doesn't like what you are doing, it will let you know. And don't think doing something stupid and then retreating to your room will help you escape. Believe me...it won't. I still have night terrors to this day.

[nucc14]

ok you say the back of the chapel. there are many rooms down there. two practice rooms that are always unlocked and the rest are locked. and what spirit are you talking about? only go alone? what about the room that is at the top of the stairs if you take a right as soon as you enter the chapel?